Home › Cosmetic Science Talk › Formulating › what make Pantene conditioner feel so good on my hair?
Tagged:conditioner, emulsifier, formula, formula development, formula help
Formulating
Posted bynhatnguyen10 on August 23, 2022 at 8:40 pm
Hi,
I am recently learning about cosmetic and pay attention to the product ingredients.I tried so many conditioners but the Pantene stand out the most. this onehttps://www.target.com/p/pantene-pro-v-daily-moisture-renewal-conditioner/-/A-86503404?preselect=83206659#lnk=sametab
Can I anyone tell what ingredient make it stand out from other?
i read some articles said that because of the cetyl alcohol and stearyl alcohol in the product. Can anyone tell what percentage they used?
thank you and hope someone could help me with my little project :blush:
welcome any comments!ngarayeva001 replied 2 years, 6 months ago9 Members·21 Replies
- conditioner
- emulsifier
- formula
- formula development
- formula help
21 Replies
OldPerry
Professional Chemist / Formulator
August 23, 2022 at 10:38 pm
It has nothing to do with the fatty alcohols. Rather, it is theStearamidopropyl Dimethylamine and the Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone, plus it has a very well liked fragrance.
nhatnguyen10
Member
August 24, 2022 at 5:13 pm
Perry said:
It has nothing to do with the fatty alcohols. Rather, it is theStearamidopropyl Dimethylamine and the Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone, plus it has a very well liked fragrance.
Wow, i never think about it. Always hear good things about the fatty alcohol. What percentage should i use forStearamidopropyl Dimethylamine and Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone?
stearamidopropyl dimethylamine vs cetrimonium chloride Vs dimethicone vs amodimethicone. Which one should I use? And why?
Can i combine little bit of everything?
Really appreciate your help!
Red_Head
Member
August 25, 2022 at 6:11 pm
Perry said:
It has nothing to do with the fatty alcohols. Rather, it is theStearamidopropyl Dimethylamine and the Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone, plus it has a very well liked fragrance.
I’ve always wanted to ask you why Pantene uses bis-aminopropyl dimethicone in their formulas instead of regular dimethicone. As far as I know, dimethicone sticks to hair better. So, if you follow my theory, conditioners with ordinary dimethicone will work better. But this is only theoretical. I know from this forum (and BB, thx) that P&G spends the most money researching the effectiveness of their products and that Pantene won the blind consumer test.
OldPerry
Professional Chemist / Formulator
August 25, 2022 at 7:10 pm
@Red_Head - It’s a good question. I’ve not worked at P&G so I can only guess. However, I think they use it because it works well enough, at the right price, and is probably easier to remove from hair with a shampooing. Also, more deposition doesn’t necessarily equal better conditioning.
ketchito
Member
August 26, 2022 at 11:18 am
@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? Amine functionalized dimethicones deposit at some level through interaction with binding sites on hair. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone has two binding sites (compared to single amino dimethicones), helping it deposit better and more selectively. Also, when positively charged, it also helps form a more even film on hair, avoiding overdeposition.
Red_Head
Member
August 26, 2022 at 2:51 pm
ketchito said:
@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone?
About bis-aminopropyl dimethicone i read:
“It actually bonds to damaged areas on the hair’s cuticle”
That is, it sticks like amodimethicone, only to negatively charged areas of the hair, but better than amodimethicone (it seems to me) and worse than dimethicone. Logically, this means that regular dimethicone will stick everywhere, not just selectively, like BA dimethicone.
If dimethicone accumulates better (not to the point of build-up, I think build-up is almost impossible considering that most shampoos are SLES +CAPB), does this not mean that it will protect the hair better, because it is more difficult to wash off, sticks more and reacts less to physical actions (combing, touching hands, styling hair)?
Another thought is that most of the big companies use dimethicone, amodimethicone, dimethiconol in their formulas. I see BA dimethicone only in products from P&G (I mean from the mass market).
I haven’t had a chance to compare dimethicone and BA dimethicone in the same formula, so all I’ve said is just a theory that may have nothing to do with the real situation, which is why I asked.
ngarayeva001
Member
August 26, 2022 at 4:09 pm
If you like that conditioner try thishttps://www.pantene.co.uk/en-gb/hair-products/hair-treatments/rescue-shots/bis-aminopropyl dimethicone is a second ingredient. I have been looking for it for months but it’s not sold at small quantities anywhere I know.
ngarayeva001
Member
August 26, 2022 at 4:17 pm
ketchito said:
@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? Amine functionalized dimethicones deposit at some level through interaction with binding sites on hair. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone has two binding sites (compared to single amino dimethicones), helping it deposit better and more selectively. Also, when positively charged, it also helps form a more even film on hair, avoiding overdeposition.
I usually prefer conditioners and serums of my own making to anything commercial but whenever I find a product with bis-aminopropyl dimethicone I buy it. I have a crush on this silicone
nhatnguyen10
Member
August 26, 2022 at 6:24 pm
ngarayeva001 said:
ketchito said:
@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? Amine functionalized dimethicones deposit at some level through interaction with binding sites on hair. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone has two binding sites (compared to single amino dimethicones), helping it deposit better and more selectively. Also, when positively charged, it also helps form a more even film on hair, avoiding overdeposition.
I usually prefer conditioners and serums of my own making to anything commercial but whenever I find a product with bis-aminopropyl dimethicone I buy it. I have a crush on this silicone
What BA dimethicone percentage do you recommend to use in conditioner? Should i combine it with other silicones ( dimethicone, amodimethicone, etc)?
beside serum, should i add it to shampoo (or use dimethicone for shampoo)?
Thank you!
Pharma
Member
August 26, 2022 at 6:41 pm
Isn’t bis-aminopropyl dimethicone very similar to aminopropyl dimethicone (jugding by the scarce info I could find regarding their structures)?
@ngarayeva001 Myskinrecipes would have the latter in stock (they call it Silicone Hi-Cond).
ngarayeva001
Member
August 26, 2022 at 9:24 pm
@Pharma thank you very much! I checked all silicones they had in June as I was placing an order and it’s either new addition or I managed to miss it! I am going to order and hope it’s similar.
Abdullah
Entrepreneur
August 27, 2022 at 6:10 am
Red_Head said:
ketchito said:
@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone?
About bis-aminopropyl dimethicone i read:
“It actually bonds to damaged areas on the hair’s cuticle”
That is, it sticks like amodimethicone, only to negatively charged areas of the hair, but better than amodimethicone (it seems to me) and worse than dimethicone. Logically, this means that regular dimethicone will stick everywhere, not just selectively, like BA dimethicone.
If dimethicone accumulates better (not to the point of build-up, I think build-up is almost impossible considering that most shampoos are SLES +CAPB), does this not mean that it will protect the hair better, because it is more difficult to wash off, sticks more and reacts less to physical actions (combing, touching hands, styling hair)?
Another thought is that most of the big companies use dimethicone, amodimethicone, dimethiconol in their formulas. I see BA dimethicone only in products from P&G (I mean from the mass market).
I haven’t had a chance to compare dimethicone and BA dimethicone in the same formula, so all I’ve said is just a theory that may have nothing to do with the real situation, which is why I asked.
All of them deposit on all parts of hair. Amodimethicone binds more to damaged parts.
For example: if total 6mg silicone deposit on hair, for dimethicone, it will deposit equally on all parts of hair. For amodimethicone, 4mg will deposit on tips that are damaged and need more conditioning and 2mg will deposit on roots that are healthy and don’t need more silicone.Abdullah
Entrepreneur
August 27, 2022 at 6:12 am
ketchito said:
@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? Amine functionalized dimethicones deposit at some level through interaction with binding sites on hair. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone has two binding sites (compared to single amino dimethicones), helping it deposit better and more selectively. Also, when positively charged, it also helps form a more even film on hair, avoiding overdeposition.
Have you used Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone?
How do you compare it to 100k cst amodimethicone?Red_Head
Member
August 27, 2022 at 8:05 pm
ngarayeva001 said:
whenever I find a product with bis-aminopropyl dimethicone I buy it. I have a crush on this silicone
I see Dimethicone BA most often in P&G products. One of the greasiest products I’ve ever bought is the Aussie SOS Supercharged Moisture.
It is absolutely not slippery, but at the same time it is very heavy on the hair. I don’t like that because it detangles my hair badly, smells weird and doesn’t make my hair soft, but this is solved with leave-in conditioners or oils. This product really kill frizz, although I’m unlikely to buy it again.ketchito
Member
August 29, 2022 at 12:10 pm
@Red_Head The final effect depends on how you formulate your product (what other ingredients you use, the level of silicone, etc). You’d need to pick up the same base and add each silicone to make a fair comparison.
Amodimethicones deposit more selectively, and form a more even film on hair (covering more area and avoiding overdeposition). That is an upgrade in performance compared to non charged dimethicones. But that doesn’t mean you cannot have a well performing product using only a dimethicone (P&G in the past only used dimethicone, till the BA propyl dimethicone was developed for them, and kept as a patent for some years).
PhilGeis
Member
August 29, 2022 at 1:10 pm
Prob should read P&G’s relevant patents - both for technology and your reapplication
nhatnguyen10
Member
September 3, 2022 at 9:30 pm
ketchito said:
@Red_Head The final effect depends on how you formulate your product (what other ingredients you use, the level of silicone, etc). You’d need to pick up the same base and add each silicone to make a fair comparison.
Amodimethicones deposit more selectively, and form a more even film on hair (covering more area and avoiding overdeposition). That is an upgrade in performance compared to non charged dimethicones. But that doesn’t mean you cannot have a well performing product using only a dimethicone (P&G in the past only used dimethicone, till the BA propyl dimethicone was developed for them, and kept as a patent for some years).
Is that mean that i cannot use BA dimethicone in my commerical products?
ketchito
Member
September 5, 2022 at 11:49 am
@nhatnguyen10 I believe that silicone is already available from some suppliers.
ngarayeva001
Member
September 17, 2022 at 5:47 am
An update! I ordered aminopropyl dimethicone and tried it in a very generic hair conditioner at 4% (to minimize inputs of other ingredients). The conditioning is on a new level! Thank you @Pharma
Graillotion
Member
September 17, 2022 at 8:17 am
ngarayeva001 said:
An update! I ordered aminopropyl dimethicone and tried it in a very generic hair conditioner at 4% (to minimize inputs of other ingredients). The conditioning is on a new level! Thank you @Pharma
Do you see a place for this…outside of haircare? (skincare)
Did you source it from Thailand?
ngarayeva001
Member
September 18, 2022 at 1:26 pm
I can’t usually see much use for cationic materials outside of hair care but you should check that supplier. They have almost anything you might want to buy. Very good customer service, they provide all MSDSs and deliver to the UK within just a week. Shipping cost for me is cheaper than when I order from the US.
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